Investing with High Rates, Stubborn Inflation, & Low Supply

Dave:The true property business has been altering quickly over the past couple of years. We’ve seen excessive rates of interest, hovering inflation, a constrained market, and the query is, what ought to traders do? On this episode of Greater Information, we’re going to reply your whole burning listener questions in regards to the housing market and economic system. Hello traders. I’m your host, Dave Meyer, and for this episode of Greater Information, we’re bringing again our very first greater information visitor manner again. I feel it was like 2021 or 2022, however we’ve got Kathy Fettke becoming a member of us. If you happen to don’t know Kathy, she’s the co-host of our sister podcast in the marketplace, and she or he is without doubt one of the most data-driven, knowledgeable traders on the market. She extensively research and understands the economic system and housing market to assist her make her investing selections. In right now’s episode, we’re gonna be bringing it again to our neighborhood to reply the questions that you simply all have in regards to the macroeconomic scenario and the housing market.And I feel much more importantly, we’re gonna dive into what you need to do with that data, as a result of a whole lot of occasions chances are you’ll hear these stats or these figures within the information, nevertheless it’s arduous to grasp what does that imply for me and my private actual property portfolio. We’re gonna reply that for you all right now. Earlier than we soar into your questions, I simply wanna remind you all that when you’ve got a query that you really want answered both by the BiggerPockets neighborhood or on the present, you are able to do that. Simply go to biggerpockets.com/boards. It’s a totally free manner the place you’ll be able to have a few of your most necessary burning investing questions answered. However that allow’s deliver on Kathy. Kathy, welcome again to Greater Information, our first ever visitor. It’s very nice to have you ever again on the present.

Kathy:Oh, it’s so enjoyable to be right here. Thanks.

Dave:Good. Effectively, I feel it’s acceptable that we’ve got you right here for our first ever greater information consumer generated questions mashup right here. And we’ve got 4 or 5 actually good questions that I’m very excited to get your opinion on. The primary query is, why are rates of interest staying so excessive and what can traders do to nonetheless get into the sport? So let’s simply begin with the primary a part of that query first, and let’s hear your tackle why rates of interest or mortgage charges particularly are staying larger than I feel lots of people thought they’d be at this level in 2024.

Kathy:Yeah, I imply, the best way to sum it up, it’s a really sophisticated matter, proper? However the best way I might sum it up is that that is the undoing of the stimulus from Covid. So when there may be any sort of main shock to the economic system or like a pandemic or, uh, you recognize, folks not paying their mortgages like in 2008, then the federal government truly sort of discovered in 2008, Hey, we are able to repair this drawback by growing the cash provide, printing cash, earning profits low cost to borrow. And so they created this new factor, quantitative easing, the place they may additionally purchase mortgage backed securities. So years later, in 2020 when the pandemic hit, uh, the, the Fed determined, let’s do that once more. And, and acquired mortgage backed securities, a lot of them to maintain charges low. It’s very manipulated the housing market in that regard. So then when the economic system principally recovered and throughout recovered and really grew to become too scorching, uh, they needed to pull all that again. So to simply sum it up, they’re pulling again the stimulus that they did throughout COVID and a part of that’s promoting off these mortgage backed securities. In order that’s one motive. After which the opposite motive is the economic system’s simply been tremendous scorching, you recognize, tremendous scorching in all probability from all that stimulus over covid.

Dave:Thanks for offering that context, Kathy. And I simply wanna be sure that everybody, uh, is following right here and understands. However principally, mortgage charges rely on a whole lot of issues. The Federal Reserve and their present coverage is a type of issues, and so they have indicated that they’re prone to decrease their federal funds charge and that may put some downward strain on mortgage charges, however that hasn’t occurred but. However even when they try this, there are different issues exterior of Fed coverage that influence mortgage charges. One in all them is bond yields. That’s in all probability a very powerful factor that we’re, that impacts mortgage charges and bond yields are staying larger than I feel lots of people have anticipated. And truly over the course of 2024, like the primary quarter, they’ve truly gone up. And in order that’s why we’ve seen mortgage charges begin to creep up somewhat bit.After which the third factor is, what’s going on within the mortgage-backed securities market? While you exit and purchase a mortgage, uh, the financial institution doesn’t maintain onto that. They really normally wind up packaging it collectively, uh, with different mortgages and promote it to different traders. That’s referred to as a mortgage backed safety. And when there’s a whole lot of demand, when a whole lot of traders wanna purchase that stuff, mortgage charges are typically decrease. However when there may be not a whole lot of demand for mortgage-backed securities banks have to supply larger rates of interest to these mortgage-backed safety traders to entice them to exit and purchase them mortgages. And that is without doubt one of the issues that’s taking place proper now, is that there’s a lot of mortgage-backed securities hitting the market. There’s not sufficient demand for them, and that’s pushing costs up. So simply these issues collectively in all probability provide you with a good image of why mortgages are staying a bit larger than lots of people had been anticipating at this level within the 12 months. So Kathy, let’s truly change gears now that we’ve answered that and discuss what traders can do on this larger rate of interest setting to nonetheless get into the sport.

Kathy:So I’ve been doing this for over 25 years, and one factor I can inform a brand new investor is actual property’s actually thrilling as a result of it’s by no means the identical. It’s at all times altering their cycles. And with every cycle it’s a must to be taught a brand new technique. In order that’s all it’s right now. Don’t, don’t freak out. That was a cycle of low rates of interest due to what we simply stated. And that meant, wow, you would purchase lock in charges at actually low costs, you would purchase extra and have a decrease cost. Uh, now it’s in fact modified. You’ve received larger charges and that actually has minimize out the competitors. So this can be a completely different cycle. And earlier than, when charges had been low, there have been, there was a lot of competitors. Now you don’t have that. So this provides you a greater probability to barter. Only a few years in the past, I, I do know a minimum of the place I’m from, you recognize, in California there was no negotiation.You made a proposal, you couldn’t even get inspections. Like, it’s like, no, I’ve received 100 different individuals who need this property. You get what you get. It’s not like that right now. So you have got extra alternative to barter. You may have a look at properties which have been in the marketplace for for much longer. You may negotiate with builders who’re sitting on stock and so they can’t promote it due to these rates of interest. So it’s only a completely different technique and it’s a very good one. It’s an incredible one. I choose it. I might somewhat negotiate with one individual than need to combat off 100 traders or patrons. Proper?

Dave:Completely. I I, I completely agree. And truly simply within the final couple of weeks I’ve seen even much less competitors. I don’t know if it’s as a result of mortgage charges have, like they had been hovering at like 6.8, 6.9, they’re now, they’re like a bit above seven and perhaps there’s some psychological factor. We’re additionally beginning to see stock come in the marketplace and begin to tick again up. I personally, like actually within the final week or so, have began to note like lots higher stock. So uhhuh, um, that’s thrilling to me. And the opposite factor I simply, I take into consideration a excessive rate of interest setting is in fact there’s, there’s commerce offs, however I see one large profit in having larger rates of interest is that it’s kind of this pressured self-discipline. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> as a result of it’s tougher to make offers pencil, however they nonetheless do. I don’t learn about you.I’ve finished truly extra offers this 12 months than I did final 12 months. Sure. Um, and it forces you to be actually good at underwriting. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. After which if charges go down, which they in all probability will, I don’t know if that’s gonna be this 12 months, subsequent 12 months, two years from now, however your deal will in all probability simply get higher over the course of the subsequent couple of years. So when you discover a deal that’s good proper now, it may change into nice. If you happen to discover a deal that’s nice proper now, it’d change into a house run. So it does make it somewhat bit more difficult to determine that deal, however the efficiency of your deal would possibly truly be higher since you’re investing on this more difficult setting. Alright, we’ve got to take a fast break, however as you recognize, rates of interest aren’t the one burning query in your minds. So we’re gonna get into inflation, whether or not the pattern in direction of working part-time is pushing us in direction of a recession and if housing costs are these rattling millennials fault after the break. So stick round. Welcome again traders. I’m right here with Kathy Fettke and we’re answering your questions in regards to the economic system and the housing market. So let’s soar again in.

Kathy:And I simply wanna add one factor, Dave. These should not, this isn’t a excessive rate of interest setting <snicker>. That’s true. It’s, it’s larger than it was, however individuals are are freaking out. Like we’re within the 20% vary or one thing. Six to 7% is regular, it’s common. We’re simply again to regular. However that’s complicated to individuals who had been having fun with not regular for some time, proper?

Dave:<snicker>? Completely. Yeah. If you happen to, when you look again to the, the early eighties, so, you recognize, within the late seventies issues went loopy. Mortgage charges had been up at like 18%. If you happen to have a look at, since that they got here again down, the long-term common is about 7% or six and alter, I feel. So, you recognize, we’re again to that. I I do assume that we’ll in all probability see charges get all the way down to the low sixes, perhaps excessive fives within the subsequent 12 months or two. Um, uh, however I feel, you recognize, the period of three% could also be gone eternally. I feel 4% is unlikely anytime quickly. And so we’re all gonna need to get used to this in a roundabout way. And naturally we’d wish to get the absolute best charge. Everybody ought to be attempting to get the, the absolute best charge. However, uh, I feel the earlier you’ll be able to regulate your techniques to this new actuality, the higher. As a result of that is actuality.

Kathy:Yeah, it’s actuality. And you may negotiate the rate of interest. I simply received a 4 and three quarter % rate of interest as a result of I’ve a stressed builder, pay that down for me. So that you’re not caught with these charges, you recognize, and that’s a part of negotiation. It’s like, yeah, I’ll purchase this place that’s been in the marketplace, however you must put in some cash and pay down my charge.

Dave:Wow. That’s a, that’s an incredible deal. Good for you <snicker>. I’m, I’m completely satisfied for you. You discovered that deal and uh, yeah, only a professional tip that, uh, builders are doing a whole lot of buydown nonetheless even into 2024. Uh, it’s a very good tip there. That’s kind of a very good transition. Now then to our second query, which is, uh, quote, with inflation issues on the rise, how would possibly actual property traders regulate their investing methods to hedge towards potential inflationary pressures? So there’s a pair issues to this query. Lemme simply begin. Thi this, uh, individual requested with inflation issues on the rise, are your inflation issues on the rise? Kathy?

Kathy:No, inflation has been coming down steadily. So simply watch out of headlines. That’s my been my, like what I’ve been attempting to inform the world, like watch out of headlines as a result of inflation went up ever so barely these previous couple of months, nevertheless it’s down dramatically from the place it was. And when you’re in building and we’re at actual wealth, we do a whole lot of new, new builds, it has come down dramatically the place the numbers are making much more sense. Now. There’s inflation in insurance coverage. And that is only a, a rumour factor, however I spoke with somebody final night time who could be very near some higher stage folks in insurance coverage and she or he stated, you recognize, it’s gonna come round. It’s, they’re making up for losses and finally, and in some unspecified time in the future insurance coverage charges will come down too. I don’t know if that’s right here, you recognize, I don’t know if that’s true, however we, we infl, um, insurance coverage is certainly a difficulty, however in any other case total inflation’s been coming down. So no, not a priority for me at the moment. Yeah,

Dave:I feel for me, I’m somewhat bit involved that inflation goes to remain at its present charge longer than we wish. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And only for context, the Fed has this goal that we received’t get into it as considerably arbitrary. It was made up in New Zealand like within the nineties, and for some motive everybody, each nation on the planet simply follows this 2% goal. Um, however they wanna get to it, they wanna get to this 2% goal. And proper now we’re somewhat bit above 3% and I don’t personally have a whole lot of concern that we’re gonna see a re-acceleration of inflation. You realize, it’d fluctuate somewhat bit over the subsequent few months, however I don’t assume we’re gonna see 4 or 5% anytime, um, within the subsequent 12 months or two. Um, my concern is that it’s gonna, that we would simply get caught the place we’re proper now and that signifies that the Fed is gonna preserve charges actually excessive and though they’re solely gonna try this if the economic system’s doing effectively, I do assume that that would have some long term implications for the housing market as a result of if the Fed retains charges excessive, if mortgage charges keep excessive, that doesn’t imply you’ll be able to’t make investments per our earlier dialog, however I do assume it’s gonna preserve stock actually locked up.I feel that’s kind of the important thing factor right here is that if mortgage charges keep excessive, we’re unlikely to see a breaking of the quote unquote lock in impact, which when you’re unfamiliar principally simply means lots of people don’t wanna promote their home proper now ’trigger they’ve these superb mortgage charges and who would need to eliminate them <snicker>. And so, uh, I feel that that’s kind of one long-term, um, kind of implication right here. So I, I don’t personally agree that there’s gonna be, uh, re-acceleration of inflation. However given, given this query and that inflation remains to be, you recognize, round it’s larger than it was actually for the final decade or so, um, and fewer besides the previous couple of years, Kathy, like how do you account for inflation in your personal investing selections?

Kathy:So as a result of we’ve got a scarcity of provide, that signifies that we’re in all probability going to proceed to see inflation in housing, which is nice for the proprietor of that asset. Not nice when you’re attempting to get into it and purchase it ’trigger it’s gonna price extra, however as you maintain it over time, and when you look traditionally for many years, uh, how, uh, actual property costs have gone up over time. So for me, inflation is nice when you personal the asset. It’s actually arduous when you don’t. And that, in my view is what separates the rich from those that are struggling.

Dave:Yeah, I I imply I feel that the truth that this one that requested posed this query is considering actual property is the reply, proper? Like there’s all kinds of techniques inside actual property. Most of them are good inflation hedges over over time. Actual property has confirmed to be a wonderful hedge towards inflation. So whether or not, you recognize, Kathy and I are right and we’re gonna see inflation stick round kind of considerably the place, the place it’s proper now or if this, uh, query the one that requested this query is right. And inflation does speed up both manner. If actual property is an efficient strategy to hedge towards that inflation, uh, as a result of it’s a bodily asset and since even when the worth of the greenback will get additional diluted, the revenue incomes potential of bodily belongings stays comparatively comparable whatever the foreign money and the energy of that foreign money.And so, um, that is without doubt one of the causes I like investing in actual property, um, is as a result of it’s such a very good inflation hedge. So I I feel don’t overthink it, purchase and maintain issues, you’ll be able to even flip homes in an inflationary setting. However when you’re in actual property, you’re in all probability fascinated about issues the suitable manner to deal with inflation. So the, the third query right here truly flows proper into this nice job to our producers. Uh, the query is about part-time work. It says {that a} document variety of People are selecting to work part-time regardless of a powerful labor market. What does this say in regards to the American economic system? Are we getting into recessionary occasions? So have you ever heard this that individuals are working extra part-time? I’ve

Kathy:Heard this type of rumor operating round, however once more, I feel when you simply have a look at demographics, it will make a whole lot of sense. It’s nothing to be involved about. Um, you have got two extraordinarily massive demographic teams right now. You may have the millennials, it’s the biggest group, after which you have got the infant boomers and the infant boomers are retiring. So perhaps they need a part-time job, however definitely not full-time. And you then’ve received millennials which are forming households. And when you, when you have a look at the price of daycare, um, you, you must be working and making some huge cash and dealing a whole lot of hours to cowl the price of daycare. So lots of people who’re simply have gotten a whole lot of, you recognize, they’re forming households, they’ve younger youngsters, perhaps they simply wanna work whereas their youngsters are at school, you recognize, and, and part-time. So I, once more, I don’t assume it’s something to fret about. It simply is sensible.

Dave:Yeah, I I feel there’s a, a mix of things which are resulting in this and a few of them is individuals who can’t make ends meet with a full-time job. And that stinks, proper? Such as you would anticipate and hope that individuals, um, who work full-time are capable of earn a residing. Um, so that’s perhaps a, a considered one of a nasty signal for the US economic system, um, usually. That that’s one class. I feel there’s one other class right here. While you have a look at a number of the information, it’s people who find themselves, and, and that is the larger classes, people who find themselves opting to work part-time and there’s classes inside classes right here. So a few of these individuals are simply getting a facet hustle ’trigger they need to earn extra. I, I’ve definitely finished this up to now. Um, I’ve had a couple of job, um, and uh, attempt to get further revenue to put money into actual property or to do no matter.And so individuals are nonetheless persevering with to try this. And one of many good elements of the American economic system, I feel is that it’s simpler to do a facet hustle now I feel, than it ever has. And so I do assume that’s in all probability one of many causes we’re beginning to see these numbers tick up. Um, a 3rd kind of bucket is precisely what Kathy stated is like some folks, and I feel this accelerated throughout COVID simply determined that perhaps they don’t wanna work part-time. They wanna, you recognize, work halftime, whether or not it’s elevating youngsters or maybe they’re labored actually arduous of their profession to get forward and now they’re like, you recognize what, I may simply work 20 hours every week or 30 hours every week. In order that’s one. After which the final class, which I hadn’t actually considered however I appeared into the info right here, is that there are thousands and thousands of people who find themselves pressured to work part-time as a result of their employers minimize their hours.And so that’s one other group that I feel that may be a little bit regarding for the economic system. Like when you, if employers are beginning, you recognize, perhaps we’re not seeing these, uh, unfavorable outcomes mirrored in a number of the unemployment numbers or a number of the, the, uh, labor statistics. But when that’s taking place, that does present a cooling economic system. However total, um, even while you add all these issues up, like the quantity of people who find themselves working part-time as a result of they’re pressured to is definitely actually low in comparison with historic charges. And so, sure, to me, I don’t assume this can be a unfavorable signal for the economic system simply but, but when these numbers begin to tick up, then I feel it’s one thing to concentrate to.

Kathy:This specific article, it says, oh yeah, we’ve job, you recognize, the variety of jobs has come down dramatically. Effectively that may be a very, superb factor. Folks <snicker>. So it’s a must to perceive like, what’s the context right here? We had too many roles, like 12 million job openings and now we’re down to love eight, or I feel it went as much as 9. So I don’t see it as a difficulty with the economic system. There’s nonetheless 9 million job openings, <snicker>, proper? Yeah, yeah.

Dave:Proper. So I feel usually talking, folks typically ask me about labor market information and job information. And it’s not for the faint of coronary heart. There isn’t a one good labor market information supply. Such as you sort of have to take a look at a whole lot of ’em Yeah. To get a generalized image of what’s occurring. Like unemployment charge ought to be a simple quantity, proper? It’s not, it’s lacking a whole lot of stuff. It contains a whole lot of stuff. Have a look at unemployment insurance coverage or job openings or the labor power participation charge. There’s all this stuff. So I might warning folks towards simply taking a look at one headline or one information supply when you actually wanna perceive what’s occurring within the labor market and perhaps both comply with somebody who actually understands it very well or look into a wide range of sources to attempt to get a extra holistic image about what’s occurring. ’trigger these, these single information factors don’t actually provide you with a full sufficient image to make investing selections off of.

Kathy:Completely. Yep.

Dave:Okay, we’re about to get into our final and spiciest query, however earlier than we do it, we’ve got to take another fast break. And through that break, when you admire getting financial information that’s related to you as an investor proper right here on this podcast, go forward and push the comply with button so that you by no means miss an episode. We’ll be proper again. Hey everybody, and welcome again to Greater Information. I’m right here with Kathy Fettke. To date we’ve coated rates of interest, inflation and the labor market. Let’s get again into it. All proper, for our final query right now, it’s a discussion board publish from the BiggerPockets boards. It stated, oh God, that is everybody at all times blaming millennials. The query is, are millennials accountable for retaining housing costs excessive? Millennials are the largest demographic cohort ever and so they’re simply getting into prime house, shopping for age <snicker>. So Kathy, I’m a millennial, so I’m gonna give a really biased reply right here, however you’re not, so what’s your tackle this?

Kathy:I simply wanna say I simply love you all on the market and I’m sorry for all these headlines that you recognize. Thanks. Child boomers received it too. So, you recognize, who’s accountable is the individuals who didn’t see 30 years in the past that this was the biggest child growth, proper? We had, we already had a child growth from the prior era and, and the infant boomers are referred to as that as a result of there was a whole lot of them and so they affected the economic system, proper? As quickly as they went to school, each, you recognize, then it was arduous to get into faculty and and so forth. So we already knew what it’s wish to have this python, you recognize, this, um, you recognize, what, what am I attempting? Elephant throughout the python, you recognize, going by the system. Yeah, precisely. It impacts it. And, um, so to organize the powers that be ought to have been pondering, wow, this group goes to be at house shopping for age at age 30, maybe we should always have some housing obtainable for them.That didn’t occur. And, after which there was a whole lot of thought, effectively, all these child boomers are gonna be lifeless by then, so there’ll be loads of housing that that story’s nonetheless going round. However they, they did not imagine, you recognize, to be taught that hey, child boomers are literally actually wholesome, more healthy than some other era and residing a very long time. In order that’s not taking place. So I blame the powers that be which have made it very troublesome to deliver on new housing provide. And since at actual wealth, we’re builders, and I do know I cope with this every day of how troublesome and costly it’s to deliver on new provide. I’m gonna blame regulation, you recognize, <snicker>, I’m going there. Millennials, you go type your households, purchase a home and ignore the headlines. <snicker>.

Dave:Yeah, I completely agree with you. And in a manner, this individual is true as a result of millennials are an enormous think about why housing costs are so excessive and so unaffordable proper now. However the phrase blame I feel is perhaps somewhat bit off as a result of it’s not like millennials made some resolution that different generations haven’t made. Like everybody desires to purchase a house, a minimum of in American society, you recognize, most People need to purchase a house someplace between the ages of about 29 and 35. Yeah. And proper now the largest demographic group in the US is between 29 and 35. So, like Kathy stated, it doesn’t take some statistical genius or some good prediction to know that like we had been gonna see a whole lot of demand for housing over the past couple of years. And so that’s actually necessary. And I, I feel what Kathy stated is actually additionally true is that for years folks have been predicting that it will be offset by the quote unquote silver tsunami, which <snicker> is that this time period that was coined that principally stated that individuals, you recognize, boomers can be reaching retirement age, they’d be eager to downsize, they’d be, you recognize, dying off.I do know that’s morbid, however it’s a truth of life. Um, and although that may unencumber housing, however that’s not taking place. Individuals are residing longer. And we had been seeing a very like manner, manner larger share of individuals selecting to age in place, which signifies that they need to keep of their current properties and never go to both, you recognize, an, uh, assisted care facility right into a nursing house, no matter it’s. Um, and so that’s taking on extra stock. So are millennials accountable? No, I feel it’s this entire complicated demographics and societal factor, however is the demographics of how large the millennial era is an enormous issue. Yeah, completely.

Kathy:You realize, I feel if we’re gonna play the blame sport, we should always blame the boomers for having youngsters <snicker>. Yeah.

Dave:It’s not like we selected to get born once we,

Kathy:That wasn’t, that was my resolution.

Dave:<snicker>, that’s my dad and mom’ fault

Kathy:Precisely. Accountable the boomers. However

Dave:I do assume that that is kind of, it, it’s a very good factor to consider as a result of it does in my thoughts, present a tailwind for housing costs for the subsequent a number of years a minimum of. And I do get lots of people asking like, okay, so when the, the millennials transfer by, does that imply that housing costs are gonna tank to me that, you recognize, I I feel there’s a probability that we see much less fast appreciation as a result of we are going to see like a, a a relative decline in demand. However that doesn’t imply that like all these millennials who simply tried actually arduous for many years to purchase a home are abruptly gonna begin promoting them. You realize, by most estimates we’ve got a, a scarcity of someplace between three and seven million housing items in the US. Um, and, uh, you recognize, there are a whole lot of causes to imagine there’s gonna be sustained ranges of demand relative to the quantity of provide that we’ve got out there.

Kathy:Yeah. And when you’re fearful about that, then you really want to concentrate to, once more, the what drives housing. And there might be locations the place they overbuilt and there might be locations the place they’re not encouraging job progress. And in these areas the place they could be overbuilt and so they’re not making it and so they’re not job pleasant, there might be an actual softening in costs. Identical to we noticed a softening within the San Francisco Bay space in, um, in rents, uh, as folks had been sort of capable of work remotely and, and stay someplace inexpensive. So I simply to guard myself from that chance, I’m at all times ensuring I’m investing in an space the place there’s strong job progress and inhabitants progress, however they, they’re not on the trail of overbuilding.

Dave:All proper. Effectively, this was enjoyable, Kathy, I, this I admire you becoming a member of us for our first ever consumer generated consumer query present on the larger information section of the BiggerPockets podcast. That’s, that may be a mouthful. We’re gonna need to work on that one. You probably did

Kathy:Effectively, that was good. <snicker>

Dave:<snicker>, thanks. It was, it was actually troublesome. Thanks. <snicker> <snicker>. Alright, effectively thanks once more Kathy, and thanks all for listening. We actually admire you. And simply as a reminder, if you wish to have your query answered on the BiggerPockets podcast, simply go to biggerpockets.com/boards, ask a query. It’s going to hopefully be answered by lots of people in our neighborhood, however there’s an opportunity that me, Kathy, or one of many different podcast hosts shall be answering your query proper right here on this podcast For BiggerPockets. I’m Dave Meyer. She’s Kathy Fettke, and we’ll see you quickly.